Joe Schilling, American nak muay

Joe Schilling is a super middleweight Muay Thai fighter from Los Angeles, California.  Schilling has been fighting  steadily in the United States gaining more fans and public notice with each win. Schilling has now earned the recognition of WBC Muay Thai and is ranked as the #1 United States  challenger for the WBC Muay Thai super midleweight championship. Joe has also fought internationally and along his passport stops has fought in Rajadmanern stadium in Thailand.

As with many United States fighters, Joe Schilling is also a teacher and gym owner but with something of a twist in the way Schilling’s gym The Yard takes their overall approach to training. I first became aware of Joe Schilling way back in 2005 at the Adrenaline 3 event in Irvine, California.  Schilling was fighting Brandon Banda when unexpectedly he connected with a spinning backfist that dropped Banda. After some sustained action from Schilling he won in what was his first professional 5-round bout ever.  Since then Schilling has been on my shortlist to pay attention to and I’m glad I did.

Question: Few people may actually know the reason your gym is called the Yard.  Can you explain the origins of the name of the gym?

Answer: Originally, Mark Komuro and I used to train at LA Boxing Club where many boxing and Muay Thai champions have come from however that gym was shut down. Then we switched over to the Lincoln Heights Jail that had been renovated into a low income boxing gym. After a short while of dealing with the politics of a boxing gym ( the whole don’t kick our bags, this is my area crap), Mark and I decided to open our own gym but wanted to maintain a similar theme and feeling of toughness.

The Yard is unique in that you and co-founder Mark Komuro have a different arrangement than most gyms.  What steps did you take to make it different?

We found that a majority of our members came from lower income families so we tried to accommodate them. We got rid of the things we didn’t like about other gyms like enrollment fees, contracts or classes and started our own hassle-free system. No professional or world-class fighter learns in a class, they learn from invaluable one-on-one attention from a trainer. It also builds relationships with our members which in turn builds our family.

Gladiator Magazine ranked your gym as the number one gym in downtown Los Angeles. What were some of the things about the Yard that you think got the rating?

Mostly, because there’s no nickel and diming. What you see is what you get and what you get is a phenomenal product delivered by phenomenal people.

Prior to the King’s Cup event in the United States you fought and trained in Thailand leading up to the fight.  How was your experience in Thailand?

Absolutely amazing. I trained at Pop-thee-ratham gym with 4-time Lumpinee Champion and WBC title holder Samart Payakaroon. His staff includes an Olympic boxing trainer, another trainer who has trained 4 Lumpinee champions, a master in Thai clinch with over 250 fights and a rising star from Sityodtong who is competing internationally. I not only grew as a fighter but also as a person. Being in a different country surrounded by such humble people reminds you how lucky you are and how much we take for granted here in the States.

Joe Schilling in famous Rajadamnern stadium

Is there any specific things which you learned in Thailand to improve you as a fighter?

We focused mostly on balance and technique. I increased my fighter IQ and learned how to be more efficient, using less energy.

There have been some time periods of inactivity for you between fights but you will now be in the main event for the Muay Thai Association of America (MTAA)  fight card coming in March (Joe Schilling will be fighting Chase Green for the WBC Muay Thai national interim super middleweight title).  Can you explain why there is such gaps in activity for you?

There was a lack of promoters and lots of people who wanted to fight. That means only a limited amount fights were available. Because of that I took fights on short notice and that were outside of my traditional set of rules. One fight in particular, I was totally unprepared for and tore apart both my knees. I had, had 2 surgeries and was out for a year as a result, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It helped me focus on my conditioning and I matured mentally as a fighter. It also helped me realize how important Muay Thai was to me because it was almost taken away from me.

I’ve noticed you are quite tall for the super middleweight limit. Is there some difficulties you’ve had to overcome to cut weight as a taller  super middleweight?

When I was younger it was never a problem to cut weight because I didn’t eat well. It was easy to make 168 because I was just shedding fat. But now as an adult, I eat better and understand nutrition more so I have put on a lot more muscle which makes it harder to make weight. That being said, I will always make weight no matter what.

We discussed your start in Muay Thai and I was surprised to find out you moved from  Dayton, Ohio to Los Angeles specifically for Muay Thai.  What prompted that move?

At age 20 I decided my true passion in life was Muay Thai. Needless to say there wasn’t a lot of opportunity to do that in Ohio so if I was going to succeed, I had to move to California.

You are becoming well known for delivering fight ending elbows.  Is this what has led to your nickname of Stitch ‘Em Up Joe?

Yes, I’ve cut almost every opponent I’ve ever fought since going pro. To this day I’ve handed out close to 90 stitches.

Some people think that your persona is that of an angry guy sort of image.  After talking with you though I found you to be more articulate beyond what maybe the fight going public knows of you.  In fact I found you to be quite a bit less than angry.  Can you explain how the image came to be in public perception?

Generally when the public pays attention to me, I’m cutting weight or somebody’s trying to kill me. Every time I get in the ring I have everything on the line so I take it very seriously. I’m a very passionate person by nature so that may come across as very intense.

Joe Schilling, intense in the ring

Coming up in March you have a main event bout against Chase Green (in the MTAA promoted event). What sort of things will you be focusing on leading up to the fight in
training?

I will focus on physical conditioning, making weight, and balance.  I want to make a statement to anyone who wants to get in the ring with me that it’s not a good idea.

You said in the past you actually got your start in fighting from tough men sort of contests in Ohio.  What sort of things about Muay Thai attracted you to the sport?

I was an angry young kid that had a lot of confidence issues. I didn’t do well in school and people told me I was an idiot. When my mom forced me to find a hobby, I discovered Muay Thai and started getting respect from people I respected. I really liked that feeling and after time I became addicted to it. The more I competed and the more it helped people like me overcome their own issues and the better I felt about myself.

Muay Thai is beautiful. I love that you can use all parts of your body. It’s called the art of 8 limbs for a reason. I also love that it’s all on me. It’s not like team sports where you can blame others for not passing you the ball. If I do well, it’s because I did well. If I did bad, it’s because I did bad.

I know in order to keep busy in fights you sometimes do boxing and MMA bouts.  How difficult is it to keep busy in professional Muay Thai?

For a long time it was very difficult to stay busy, but thanks to the MTAA it hasn’t been an issue. I’m looking forward to meeting and working with new promoters and sharing what I have with the world.

Would you be interested in fighting internationally in Muay Thai?

I can’t wait.

You also fought in  Wu Lin Feng rules (roughly sanda rules).  How was your experience fighting in these rules?

Horrible. I don’t particularly like that style. I took the fight on four days notice and in a ten lbs heavier weight class that I normally fight. I was completely unprepared. The entire situation was a mistake on my and the promoters part and it will never happen again.

Who internationally would you like most to fight?

I’m not really interested in calling out names, but I do want to fight anyone that will improve my career and will get me closer a world title. I want to be involved with fights that the fans want to see. I want memorable matches against tough opponents and I’m always looking for a challenge.

Joe Schilling after downing an opponent

You also fought for The World Combat League (WCL).  What was that experience like fighting mostly full contact in very compressed rounds?

Style wise, it wasn’t for me. Most of my weapons don’t translate well to WCL. However, it helped me get comfortable with all the media and competing on such a big stage. Overall it was a great experience but a horrible performance.

Who so far has been your toughest opponent in Muay Thai?

In any fight I’ve ever had I am my toughest opponent. It doesn’t take anything away from the people I have fought. I’ve never had an easy fight and I don’t want an easy fight. But ultimately it’s my mental preparation and whether or not I show up to fight that will always be my toughest opponent.

We both discussed some of the issues and challenges to USA Muay Thai growing.  What do you think American Muay Thai needs most to grow?

Without a doubt, Muay Thai needs television to generate greater awareness. One way to get media attention is to create bigger match ups. Promoters from all over America need to work together to put East coast and West coast fighters against each other. The whole country needs to start kicking the shit out of each other in order for the entire sport to elevate. Our goal should not be for one fighter or one group of fighters or one promoter to excel, but for the sport as a whole to grow. In the long run, we will all benefit with that goal.

Joe Schilling ready to fight

It seems like in  America we’re beginning to see some break out names in Muay Thai such as Kevin Ross and now yourself.  How do you feel now that all your hard work as a fighter is now beginning to be recognized?

It’s definitely a good feeling. I’ve worked really hard for a long time and feel that I deserve whatever comes my way. I’m so grateful to all my fans for supporting me along the way and I promise never to let them down. I always look to put on a good show and am hoping to maintain this momentum that I have going into this upcoming year.

What kind of things can we look forward to from Joe Schilling in your March fight?  And what messages do you have to your old fans and new fans?

There will be lots of intensity in March’s fight. I don’t know a whole lot about Chase Green and I don’t want to take anything away from him, but I’m going to make a statement to him and anybody else that they have no business being in the ring with me.

Much thanks to Joe Schilling for granting this interview and all at the Yard for making it possible. Joe Schilling is set for a WBC National title fight on March 5th, 2011. You can keep up to date with news about Joe Schilling at the official The Yard web site.

John Cockburn Tours China

When news first came out about the former President of Australian Muay Thai John Cockburn being expelled from his post the uproar among citizens of the Australian Muay Thai world was immediate.  Rumors began circulating about John Cockburn’s exit and the circumstances surrounding it.  It resulted in letters surfacing with communiques between Stephan Fox and John Cockburn much of which was less than flattering to the World Muay Thai Council (WMC) vice-president and International Federation Muaythai Amateur (IFMA) General Secretary Stephan Fox.

John Cockburn had no means of disputing rumors in a public forum so I have elected to give him the space to answer these questions in a public format.  I of course invite anyone from WMC to respond as well. My email contact is accessible from the about me page. In this segment Cockburn explains the specific issues he had with WMC and policy that resulted in his unexpected exit from Australian Muaythai Federation.

Question: I have seen on the WMC website Mr Fox’s gym being advertised as the WMC Gym. I have also seen an advert for the MTG Fight night – MTG is Mr Fox’s boxing brand label. Is this appropriate?

Answer: I have never seen any agreement authorizing such arrangements. The average person looking at the website would believe the WMC gym is run for the benefit of the WMC – not Mr Fox and his partner/s. Having a TV show named as Mr Fox’s own brand of equipment – looks very very poor. The TV show is to be aired in Australia but the 1st our Federation became aware of it was when an advertorial appeared in the International Kickboxer magazine – no notice to our national board – very tacky behaviour in my view.

I have seen letters where you are very concerned about the potential for conflicts of position and interest with Mr Fox.

The basis of my concern is that if you hold a position in an organization – the duty to that position must be paramount to your own interests. If there is to be a mixing of your position and your own commercial position there must be full disclosure and agreement by the organization to such mixing. I have never seen any evidence of such disclosure obligations having been met. If you visit Mr. Fox’s office you see a sign on the door saying WMC but when you walk in, there are MTG as well WMC staff and MTG gear being packed for shipping.

I have never seen an international sporting body which has its Secretary General star in a reality TV show but you can see why some IFMA Board Members are reluctant to speak up to get issues resolved.

IFMA/WMC has no named sponsors – look at the website. They do not have commercial/ strategic plans. In fact I don’t remember seeing audited financial accounts for the IFMA or the WMC presented to the Boards which is very disturbing. I say this not to accuse Mr Fox of impropriety with funds but simply to highlight how important it is to have proper disclosure of interests when he operates as a commercial operator in muaythai activities but also holds senior roles.

It was common knowledge just from reading the IFMA and WMC website you worked very closely with Mr Fox – why the problem with you?

I held the view that IFMA had involved itself in some sharp if not unlawful activities and was not operating according to proper corporate governance standards. I also took the view some of its dealings were inconsistent with the best interests of our member countries and the interests of the national Federation in Australia. As Secretary General/VP to the WMC Mr Fox.

The most basic example was when Mr .Fox refused to provide me with a current copy of the WMC Constitution. This was important because a letter had been sent out from the WMC headquarters saying that the national federations (NFs) of the IFMA were not members of the WMC and the WMC would operate directly with promoters across the world as it saw fit. You only need to look at the WMC website to see it holds out the NFs as its draw card for international recognition. I asked a number of our senior IFMA International Executive who confirmed they had never seen a recent constitution. The only 1 that existed had the IFMA as a sub committee of the WMC. Mr Fox found out about my concerns and then accused me of starting a conspiracy against him. As of today still no constitution and your guess is as good as mine as to who are the members of the WMC.

Give me an example of sharp practices

Until I put my foot down, at the World Championships, Mr Fox would have the Australian team compete for another 4 or 5 countries that did not send athletes – he did this to make it sound like IFMA had bigger championships.

Another example was when I discovered he was falsely telling a World Kickboxing  Network (WKN) promoter that I was using my influence as a lawyer to block a visa for a competitor from Belarus entering Australia to compete against John Wayne Parr for the WKN world title.

There were continual claims that IFMA membership far exceeded what it really was. Even at the last World Championships we were advised there were only paid up national membership of just over 60 countries. Mr Fox continues to hold out IFMA membership is over 120 countries. Having a gym in a country which says they support the WMC/IFMA isn’t a national federation member.

Another most embarrassing incident for IFMA President, Dr.Tapsuwan, was when Mr Fox went behind his back and agreed to Muslim girls from a number of countries not being required to wear the IFMA proper uniform. Dr.Tapsuwan only found out about it when the athletes were presented for competition and he refused to let them compete. Mr. Fox then tells me that he told Dr.Sakchye he would take all the IFMA members across to the World Muay Thai Federation (WMF). I then have to go and broker an arrangement to allow them to compete with Dr.Sakchye when I should have simply let Mr Fox’s deceit take its course.

Dr. Tapsuwan

There was an issue about visas?

Mr Fox was approaching embassies in Bangkok with a very senior Thai official and attempting to coerce local Thai staff in the embassies into refusing visas for athletes to compete in non WMC events outside Thailand. There are emails confirming this. This is a very fundamental breach of the UN Charter of Human Rights. It isn’t up to a sporting organization to interfere with visas particularly when it would interfere with an athlete’s ability to earn their income.

Mr Fox wanted my ”jpeg” signature for the files so he could use it on letters in support of this practice and I refused.

What about Mr Fox interfering in Australia?

This has been an ongoing problem which started when our National Board resolved to approach Fox Sports directly in 2006. At that time Mr Fox’s good friend Mark Castagnini held the contract with Fox Sports which was worth a lot of money. It was our Board’s intention to start negotiations with Fox Sports directly with the aim of essentially cutting out the middle man and having the money find its way into the sport and particularly our athletes’ pockets. Anyway Castagnini was told, he rings Mr. Fox and Mr. Fox rings me for over ½ an hour from Bangkok giving me a tirade about how important Castagnini was to the sport and even telling me Castagnini had, had a gun put in his mouth in support of the sport.

It has always been my position that Castagnini should have a role as a celebrity commentator and be paid for that but not have him be in a position to control what muaythai would appear on Fox Sports.

What is the relationship between Castagnini and Mr Fox?

Castagnini and Mr. Fox have run annual 2 week tours to Thailand for over 10 years which Mr Fox has told me is worth $500 per student to him. Castagnini’s magazine provides what, to me, is really no more than advertorial support of Mr Fox and his commentary on Fox Sports is very often further advertorial support of Mr Fox. Mr Fox was best man at Castagnini’s weeding several years ago. I have seen an email where Castagnini implores Mr Fox to get him the role as commentator for the final of the Contender Asia series which did eventuate.

I believe Mr Fox was instrumental in having Castagnini commentate the Tyrone Spong/ Nathan Corbett bout which was very embarrassing to Australian muaythai when Castagnini seemingly lost control and commentated his offer to fight Spong’s manager.

Mr Fox has even taken Castagnini to Kazakhstan and had him sit with the Kazak Prime Minister.

I take it Castagnini doesn’t send you Christmas Cards?

He seemed to think I am his enemy rather than the President of an organization looking to look after the interests of its members. He seems to think that his loyalty to and friendship with Mr Fox puts him in some special position beyond being a commercial operator.

Why is Fox so concerned about Australia?

Mr.Fox still travels on a German passport but his wife and child live in Perth Western Australia and he has permanent residence in Australia. Mr. Fox established the Australian federation and I think he still thinks he is responsible for Muaythai’s growth in Australia – even though he hasn’t lived here for 10 years.

How is muaythai in Australia at the moment?

At the elite athlete level we are very strong and we are having regular large promotions but at the grassroots level the sport the sport has now stalled.

In May 2009 we successfully compete muaythai as part of the Arafura Games. July 2009 we are accepted into the Australian Sports Commission as a national sporting organization which means muaythai is now recognized as a sport for funding etc by government. This put us at the forefront of countries outside Asia and Europe as being recognized by our government. Countries like England, Canada, USA and New Zealand are not recognized.

I am aware that your long standing national coach Joe Hilton and your Doctor resigned earlier this year.

So did our Queensland President, our replacement national coach, our Secretary General and our Sports Administrator. The Board became dysfunctional in my view because of continued communications from Fox. I resigned eventually because the Finance Director on the Board wouldn’t withdraw from his position when it was established he didn’t hold the requisite period of membership to hold office. This was even after we paid for a barrister’s advice which confirmed he couldn’t stay on the Board. It was open for me to take court proceedings to force the issue but I decided it was time for those left on the Board to have a go at moving the sport forward without my assistance.

The Federation also had very high powered educational and indigenous liaison officers who were senior in Government and who were actively supporting major initiatives we were planning. They both have now withdrawn their support of the Federation

I have seen letters where Fox challenged your re-election.

That’s correct. Mr Fox, as I have already indicated, in my view, has little concern for or knowledge of corporate governance. Even after we obtained a barrister’s opinion that confirmed the election was in order he still disputed my election. I think it was more a matter that he didn’t want me re-elected ( this was prior to my expulsion from the IFMA).

He then went and alleged that I had not sent out voting papers/notice of the meeting to our members. This straight away blew up in his face because he apparently didn’t understand that it is the role of the Sec Gen to post out meeting/voting materials and he was thereby alleging our Sec Gen was involved in a conspiracy with me. My election was uncontested by any other candidate so it was a stupid thing to try and make an issue of.

Fox’s home state of West Australia is now the home to the WKN and WBC in Australia?

True. If you take out Qld then nearly all major international events are run by bodies other than the WMC. In 2008 Mr Fox started dealing directly with some people in West Australia as if they were not only members of but Executive members of the Australian Federation. Neither had held membership of the federation. I objected to his interference and Mr Fox became quite irrational and even wrote open communications as if they already held roles on our national executive

I eventually had to write to the Chairman of the West Australia Combat Sports Board on a confidential basis to ensure the Govt was not confused by these people holding out Mr Fox’s letters as legitimizing their alleged role with the national and world bodies. Mr Fox became aware of same and made threats of violence against me.

On another occasion he met with them and next thing we know they have established an organization known as the Australian Muaythai Federation (which was the name Mr Fox told them was to be the new name of our Federation after our acceptance into the Australian Sports Commission). I’m not suggesting Mr Fox told them to do that but the reality was that his dealing with them placed us in a very awkward position and he confused the WA gyms as to who was who.

It seems to me that there may be further questions to be asked.

As I said I was happy to have accepted the umpire’s decision by the Court of Arbitration for Sport but since IFMA was not but prepared to do the honorable thing then I am happy to deal with issues publicly. I have already been subject to various threats of violence and otherwise as a result of having raised my concerns.

John Cockburn former Australian Muay Thai president

When news first came out about the former President of Australian Muay Thai John Cockburn being expelled from his post the uproar among citizens of the Australian Muay Thai world was immediate.  Rumors began circulating about John Cockburn’s exit and the circumstances surrounding it.  It resulted in letters surfacing with communiques between Stephan Fox and John Cockburn much of which was less than flattering to the World Muay Thai Council (WMC) Vice-President and International Federation Muaythai Amateur (IFMA) General Secretary Stephan Fox.

John Cockburn had no means of disputing rumors in a public forum so I have elected to give him the space to answer these questions in a public format.  I of course invite anyone from WMC to respond as well. My email contact is accessible from the about me page.

The interview with John Cockburn is in 2 parts and this is the first of those parts. In this part John Cockburn details some of the causes for the dispute between he and Stephan Fox and some of the interworkings of IFMA and WMC as well as the details leading up to Cockburn’s exit from the Australia Muaythai Federation.

Question – Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed John.

John Cockburn – No problem. Given that International Muay Thai Federation Amateur (IFMA) wouldn’t agree to have my expulsion reviewed by the international court for sport as the independent arbitrator I am comfortable answering questions. The expulsion was really about Mr Fox having to shoot the messenger. I am still very good friends with many of the IFMA Board but IFMA needs to be able to properly govern itself if it wishes to be a true international sporting body.

I had asked for an independent inquiry into a number of serious irregularities in relation to the governance of the IFMA and WMC so the best they could do was to shoot the messenger.  You have the letter calling for the Inquiry.

Why wouldn’t they agree to have the expulsion reviewed?

That is really a question for Mr Fox but I can say that my appeal would expose the wrongdoings I allege against Mr Fox. Equally the disciplinary process was so badly flawed it was embarrassing for all concerned. Mr Fox  talks up IFMA’s mission for IOC acceptance but when its gets its 1^st opportunity to act like an IOC sport and have its decisions  scrutinized by the court for sport –  it refuses. This is particularly worrying when the complaints against me were made by Mr Fox and I had openly expressed my concerns that he had involved the IFMA in improper activities and he had acted against the interests of our Australian federation.

It seems to me to be a very serious thing to expel an organization’s Vice President and Chair of its Legal Commission.

Ordinarily it would represent some form of major scandal having occurred. If I was advising the IFMA I would have advised that the exact allegations should have been disclosed publicly and independent lawyers brought in. The most senior lawyer in the IFMA Legal Commission was not even asked to assist. IFMA even had non English speaking/reading people form part of the Judiciary Committee.

What were the actual complaints against you?

I’ll give you the complaint or charges documents and you can post them up if you wish. The documents really amount to meaningless verbiage. While I do disciplinary work in my legal practice, I engaged both a barrister and lawyer at my own expense to act for me.  They suggested the “charges” were drafted by someone trying to impersonate a lawyer’s language.

Did IFMA have its own lawyer?

Certainly – 1 of IFMA’s own people – though I would be very surprised if he was responsible for the very poor documents that were sent to me. Unfortunately when my lawyers wrote to the IFMA lawyer seeking clarification of the charges and pointing out some difficulties the IFMA lawyer would not respond. I eventually met with the lawyer at the world championships – the day before the world meeting (by accident)  and he told me that he was under no responsibility to communicate with them and he refused to talk with them. Hardly openness and transparency.

Is that legal?

Not illegal but bordering on an abuse of the process – especially when he was dealing with me as the long standing international Vice President and the Chair of the Legal Commission. I had asked for an independent lawyer to be brought in to avoid the process looking bad because of perceived influence by Mr Fox. A General Secretary making complaints about the organization’s own lawyer would be exactly the sort of matter where an independent lawyer should be brought in. I even wrote and asked that an independent Inquiry be established into my various concerns but that letter was not even responded to.

Why do you say influence?

In mid 2009 Mr Fox had written to me and others saying that if I was not expelled from the IFMA he would resign from the IFMA ( this was well before any issues that I was “charged” with). Mr Fox has telephoned another member of the Legal Commission – a very senior lawyer – asking that he get me to resign from both the IFMA and the Australian Federation. He refused and then rang and told me what had happened. Mr Fox has never spoken to him since. Mr Fox also spoke to our other Australian IFMA Executive Board member trying to influence him to get me to resign and Mr Fox was told to butt out of Australian muaythai affairs.

The other Australian IFMA Executive Board member was then cut out of all communications from IFMA Head Office and wasn’t invited to any IFMA meetings. The Australian federation complained about this a number of times but never received a response from Mr Fox.

So Mr Fox was telling you that he would have you expelled in mid 2009 but it took until mid 2010 for that to happen?

That’s right. Even worse was that the “charges” that I was expelled for seemingly related to conduct in January and February 2010 – 9 months after he was already telling people I had to be expelled. Very strange.

You say the charges against you were not proper charges but you must have some idea what they related to.

As best I can understand it there were 2 issues about me having to speak to other muaythai bodies. Bear in mind that I never received any documents or statements for me to know what the issues were.

The 1^st was when I found out that Mr Fox had advised the WKN Australian promoter that I was trying to use my power as a lawyer to block the WKN Wayne Parr World Title fight. I wrote to the WKN promoter and advised him this was not the case and I was very disappointed by Mr Fox’s allegations against me.  In fact Mr Fox should have been subject to disciplinary action for making such false claims which he has never sought to dispute.

The 2^nd was when I responded to a letter offering support from the WMF Sec General, Master Woody who I had never met or spoken with before. I said to him that I was disappointed I had been charged by  IFMA and would let him know the outcome of the court for sport proceedings which I believed would have to occur to clear my name.

You have both documents – please make them public if you see fit.

Stephan Fox, Vice President of WMC and IFMA General Secretary

Is that it? Surely there must be more to it.

That’s it. Please ask Mr Fox. Look the whole thing was a charade and a circus because I had challenged what I saw as falsifications in our membership claims, irregular  practices and a lack of proper protocols in the way IFMA and WMC operated. Moreover the Australian federation was starting to look to take up a direct media position and this cut across how Mr Fox saw how muaythai was to be presented in Australia. Mr Fox had even secretly emailed ( and not to our Federation) to the major promoters in Australia saying that he would arrange a meeting  between them, the current middle men and Fox Sports.

You have said the whole disciplinary process was farcical. How so?

I’ll list the problems as a chronology. I have provided you with the letter where I state same fore expansively.

1. They send me a letter which obviously has found me guilty of misconduct without even asking me for my comments/explanation.

2. There is some nature of report about me prepared that the IFMA Board and I never saw. I was never asked to answer any questions about what may have been in the report

3. There was an IFMA Executive Board meeting held to deal with the issue ( amongst other things) but no agenda for the meeting was ever sent out. This of itself invalidates the whole process. I challenged that there was no agenda and the only person who says they ever saw the agenda was Mr Fox. I have emails from IFMA Executive members saying they never saw an agenda. I have a video of the start of the meeting which you can show if you wish. I was refused the right to video the meeting because the IFMA lawyer says they do not want to air dirty laundry publicly.

4. I went to table several documents at the IFMA Board meeting and Mr Fox snatched them away from me and refuses to neither distribute them to the meeting nor return them to me.

5. I was refused the right to speak to the Board.

6. When I am charged no statements or documents against me are ever produced – especially the agenda notice I have spoken about

7.  After the lawyer for IFMA becomes aware of me raising allegations against Mr Fox with the Thai IOC member and that the Thai IOC member being critical of Mr Fox the IFMA lawyer then admits there is an investigation underway. Within a day he then sends me another letter saying there is no investigation underway. Very bizarre.

Why do you say Mr Fox is able to exert inappropriate influence over the IFMA Board?

The IFMA Executive has only there are a limited number of “independent” Board members – by this I mean members whose livelihoods are not dependent upon their muaythai activities. There are others who are only figureheads. Then there are other notionally “independent” Board members but through a lack of understanding of English are not able to perform a full Board role and are essentially reliant upon Mr Fox’s advices. There is no attempt by IFMA itself  to assist their understanding of what is said at meetings. Equally no proper papers in respect of what is to be dealt with at Board meetings are provided to Board members in advance of meetings. Then there are a number of commercially focused Board members who are reliant upon Mr Fox to ensure access to visas for athletes and assisting them with matchmaking. No headline international athlete –  no major promotion. Equally many of those who want Thai trainers to come to their country are dependent upon Mr Fox either making visa arrangements for them or having letters of support from the WMC/IFMA. Some of these people are heavily dependent upon the WMC “brand”.

Much thanks goes to John Cockburn for responding and telling his side of the story.  As always I invite the WMC, Fox, or any of the head generals to respond as well. In part 2 of this interview John Cockburn explains what specific issues were in dispute in regards to IFMA, WMC and the conflicts that arose specifically about policy.

Cosmo Alexandre Prepares for the King's Cup Tournament

Cosmo Alexandre has been a very busy fighter since I first interviewed him.  Cosmo has won the It’s Showtime World championship, and was a finalist in the 2010 King’s Cup tournament in Thailand and actively trains at Link Brazillian Jiu Jitsu gyms in Massachusetts home of UFC fighter Gabriel Gonzaga to prepare for his MMA career. I have to say with some amount of pride that Cosmo first granted that first interview with me before he became as well known and widely celebrated as he is now.

Cosmo and I were previously going to meet up in person in Vancouver, Washington and Cosmo as always, graciously agreed.  However due to time constraints and literally moving 1500 miles away I never could make that encounter happen. Cosmo has typically been more than gracious and extremely easy to talk to. In my opinion while Cosmo’s level of fame has changed his personable and polite manner never has. Thanks very much to Cosmo Alexandre for agreeing to do a follow-up interview.

For those of you less familiar with Cosmo Alexandre among his accomplishments are the :

• 2010 WMC/S1 King’s Cup Challenger tournament runner up
• 2009 WMC/S1 King’s Cup Challenger tournament champion
• 2009 Evolution 17 Winner King’s Cup Qualifying tournament champion
• 2008 It’s Showtime Reality finalist
• 2007 WMC Intercontinental Champion (160 lbs)
• 2007 WPMF World title (160 lbs)

Question: How are things going for you now that you are in the United States?

Answer: Everything is great, thank you. Here I can train Muay Thai, BJJ, wrestling and boxing all in one place. I love that.

What prompted you to train first in Vancouver, WA and now Ludlow, MA?

I went there to check out a gym in Vancouver, WA. I had some invitations to gyms in the United States and I needed to check it all.

For some of the people who may not know what happened with It’s Showtime terminating your contract after you decided to participate in the King’s Cup tournament in Thailand could you give a description of what happened?

Yes, before that, I had some problems with It’s Show Time, and this time they told me I couldn’t fight in King’s Cup. Since, my choices were one of the two, I needed to choose .  Kings Cup or It’s Showtime: I didn’t need to think twice. I chose King’s Cup.

What are some of the things you now teach at Link Brazillian Jiujitsu in Ludlow, MA?

I’m teaching them all about Muay Thai.

Some fans wonder if you will eventually leave Muay Thai to do only MMA. Will you be readying to go to MMA full time?

I will never stop doing fights in Muay Thai , I love it! But now I want to fight MMA too and I really want to win major titles.

Do you still plan on making future trips to Thailand?

Yes of course! I love Thailand. I love to train there! I like the good weather and the good food! And I have many good friends there!

Many fans felt you perhaps deserved the win over Yodsanklai in the King’s Cup tournament. How do you feel about the fight?

I’m sure I won that fight, but I know how things sometimes happen in Thailand. One year before I knocked out 2 Thai opponents at King’s Cup and they needed a Thai to be a champion. It was a close fight and I was fighting against a Thai fighter so…

Cosmo Alexandre Throws a Jumping Knee at It's Show Time

Where in the world you like to fight next?

I will fight in Italy against Giorgio Petrosyan. It will be a very good fight!

*The event will be Oktagon in Milan, Italy which will also feature Andrei Kulebin, Fabio Pinca, Marcus Oberg, and some other big names of Muay Thai

Do you feel that due to you and Leo Monteiro’s success and reasonably high profile internationally in Muay Thai that Brazil has started to learn more real Muay Thai?

Yes, we hope so. But in Brazil it is hard because you can train real Muay Thai but there is no Muay Thai events. In Brazil it is just K-1 rules events.

Cosmo Alexandre with Leo "Amendoim" Monteiro

What do you think Brazil needs to grow more as a nation in Muay Thai?

We need more real Muay Thai events with elbows, clinch and rules like in Thailand.

For MMA what are some important things you have learned?

I’m doing wrestling and Brazillian Jiujitsu. I really need to train it!

Who influenced you most in Muay Thai?

I am influenced by many Thai fighters like Sakmongkol, Pajusunk, Orono, and Samart.

When you won the It’s Showtime championship I noticed it was at a larger weight. What weight do you feel most comfortable at competing at for Muay Thai?

That’s true brother. I really like to fight in 72.5 kg. It’s the perfect weight for me.

Is there a gym you prefer to train at when you are in Thailand?

I have always trained in Rompsrithong Gym (Click the link for the excellent Siamfightmag.com review of the gym) and it is close to Bangkok. Rompsrithong is a very nice camp if you want just train real Muay Thai.

Cosmo Alexandre in Thailand

What interested you in competing in MMA?

I like taking on new challenges and everybody knows that the money in MMA is just better.

Because you are almost always training away from your home country in Brazil how do you stay in touch with your family when training?

When I stay a long time away from my home I take my family with me. When I just fight in another country, I usually go alone if it takes just a couple of days.

Will you return to Holland for fights or would you be interested in fighting in France where full rules are common for Muay Thai?

I can fight in any country for sure.

Cosmo Alexandre Kicks Yodsanklai

Do you plan on fighting for the World Professional Muay Thai Federation (WPMF) again where you won a world title?

I want to fight every where, for any sanction. I love competing!

Many fans often wonder what Cosmo Alexandre is doing. What can you tell your fans about future plans for yourself and for your fighting career?

All I know is that I want to keep on training hard as always and continue improving my style and giving you all good shows!

Saohin Srisuk, Jonah Villamor, and Srab Srouey,

Srab Srouey is a unique entity in the United States and probably much of the world. It’s been reasonably documented in the past the argument between Khmer and Thai communities about which came first Muay Thai or Pradal Serey. Srab instead works to unite both communities of Cambodia and Thailand and to celebrate and support not only the sport but the culture of South East Asian martial arts as a whole.  Through Srab’s concerted efforts with his organization Filipino arts, Thai arts and Cambodian arts are represented to the public in Washington state and the Northwest. This represents not only Muay Thai and Pradal Serey but traditional folk dance as well. It was a pleasure to talk about these topics with Srab Srouey.

How did you get your start in Khmer boxing?

I was influenced by my grandpa’s fighting. In his day my grandpa was a busy fighter and would fight at many festivals in our community in Cambodia. Much of my family and my friends were always fighting and training. I grew to love Pradal Serey through them and would eventually fight as well.

In Cambodia my father would not let me fight and never liked it. But my grand father loved it. Many of my friends were fighters. Following the war I moved to Surin near the Thai border and my friends became involved in the fight circuit there. I was 15 at the time of my first fight. I trained in secret from my father because he disliked the fighting. I mostly fought in festival show fights. I did it out of love for the sport and really never to get money or fame.

What made you decide to teach Americans this sport once you moved to Washington?

It started because I taught my son in my back yard and my neighbor got curious and wanted to learn in my garage. So, I started teaching my neighbors in my garage. Then I started to teach in a gym. The gym is a nice facility with 2500 sq feet gym. But I still teach my neighbors in my garage also.  They started there and I guess they feel more comfortable in that environment.

You are one of the founders of the United Southeast Asian Cultural Association (USEACA) organization. What prompted you to create USECA?

I founded the USEACA organization with my family and with Laos, Thais and Cambodians. I saw a need to represent a united effort between all the ethnicities among South East Asians. I wanted to do something for the community and express our love for the art and sport. We want to show everyone that we are united and support the art. We are all Americans and the differences between communities from South East Asia need to be  put aside for the greater good.  After all, if we don’t do it and represent ourselves who will? So we founded USEACA in 2007 with Muay Thai, Muay Lao, and Kun Khmer being represented.

I noticed that USEACA as well as being a sanction for Muay Thai/Khmer boxing is also a cultural movement to preserve South East Asian art and dance. What made you decide to bring South East Asian martial arts into one house despite style differences?

I think we belong all in one house. Kun Khmer and Muay Thai all come from the same place. Technique and tactics are the same whether it is Muay Lao, Muay Thai and Kun Khmer. The parent art is the same. I do have to emphasize that Muay Boran is different. In my opinion the classical martial of Muay Boran is a bit more complete. Muay Thai and Pradal Serey is like maybe 10% of the total knowledge the parent art represents.

Do you ever have pride rivalries between styles or ethnic groups?

No, not really all of us are very family oriented. And we’re all immigrants from the same place. They understand the importance of family and being united. America kind of flattens out differences. Its much different in America than in our home countries.

What are some of the things USEACA does to develop Muay Thai in the northwest United States?

To begin with we sanction fights and events for Muay Thai and we are nearly alone in that in the Northwest. We are the only Kun Khmer and Muay Thai sanction in the state of  Washington. But in addition, to developing fighters  in Pradal Serey we also try to educate the public in the state about South East Asian culture.

We have 2 big events a year one: in April and November. So there is some Muay Thai in the Northwest but mostly the fight scene is mixed martial arts. There is slow growth but it’s mostly a grass-roots movement.

Srab Srouey with members of USEACA

Unlike some gym owners who do a gym full time and commercially you also have a day job. How do you balance between gym time and your home life?

No, I am used to it. For me it just seems like a normal schedule.  Muay Thai and Kun Khmer is a part of my everyday life. The way I look at it is it beats what a lot of  people do after work. They may be drinking or watching television. I get to train fighters and develop the sport I love. That is what makes me happy.

Saohin Srisuk recently joined your gym as a member of the teaching staff at South Sound Martial Arts. What sort of things does Saohin bring that are unique to the gym?

Saohin brings a lot of knowledge and can run classes if I am en route to class or teaching myself. Saohin has very good training and does his best to promote Muay Thai in the Northwest. I think Saohin can teach better technique than what most students have seen. He tries to emphasize preparation with technique and solid training.

Srab Srouey with students

How would you like to see Muay Thai and Khmer boxing to develop in the Northwest?

I would like to see Muay Thai and Kun Khmer grow stronger together. I have no bias towards any one name. I’d like to see both become one identity and grow stronger together. We all work together  which is what our arts need. I work closely with Master John and they can come to me and I will advise them and vice versa. We all recognize that its our art and our strength.

One of the things that struck me was how unique USEACA is in all of the United States. Do you get much acknowledgment among the Muay Thai community for this?

Some organizations have expressed their appreciation through their members.  For example Mike Walrath of Thai Boxing Association has noticed us. But  beyond personal correspondence nothing so direct as an award or anything of that nature. I really want USEACA’s expression to grow in the art and the sport. I am  not so much about the accolades or recognition for my efforts or USEACA’s. I love the art and I want it to grow. That’s what USEACA wants to accomplish.

As someone who teaches students at all levels what is the most important thing for someone to learn who wants to also compete?

I tell my students, “a  good tree has good roots”. I make sure they have solid fundamentals before competing. I emphasize step by step instruction. It reminds me of my youngest students learning the basics. My youngest student is 4 years old and they are learning the same techniques any ring fighter will need to know.

In the online community there seems to be some schism between Kun Khmer followers and Muay Thai fans. Does it matter much to you who came up with the style first?

For me we all (Thais and Khmer) have one original source martial art. What matters is that it’s the 21st century and that debate is no longer relevant. Its more important that we work together and we all become stronger together. All of these styles are the science of 8 limbs. If we don’t promote it and support it who will? We all need to move on beyond the infighting over small issues and move on. What’s more important is securing our future.

What is the representative area for USEACA?

Geographically we cover parts of Canada, Washington, Oregon and we have some presence in San Fransisco, California.

Will USEACA be expanding into other regions of the United States?

We are open to everyone, anywhere in the United States. We are willing to work with whoever wants to support us and the goals of USEACA. By definition we aren’t restricted to any region or nationalities.

Srab Srouey and Master John

Do you often find people who train in South East Asian martial arts also want to further their knowledge of South East Asian culture?

Sometimes, it depends on the person. Because of the interest we offer traditional Khmer dance as well as Kun Khmer and Muay Thai through USEACA. It’s important to preserve the art and style.

Do you have any professional fighters yet?

Not yet but we had a 4-man tournament recently which my student, Jonah Villamar won and is a champion. Recently though, Washington state announced they will not allow any more tournaments *. I was notified of this via a letter from the Washington State Athletic Commission. Apparently, at one MMA tournament held in Washington a fighter ended up dying due to injuries from a  fight.

* Defined in Washington State Athletic Commission Bill 1062 Section 5.

USEACA did recently awarded a championship to  Ciara Irvin from Big Foot gym.

There is an ongoing debate about the importance of adhering to tradition whther Thai, Lao, or Khmer. How important is it that boxers perform the wai kru in the ring?

In American society they do not always have the understanding of the importance of wai kru. To fight true Muay Thai it is very important. It represents the culture where Muay Thai comes from. It pays respect to your teacher and your gym. It’s not an activity that can be separated from Muay Thai in my opinion.

Is it also important to learn the South East Asian terms for techniques like kicks or elbows?

In my opinion, right now in USA in the 21st century it is not as important. Something like the native language terminology is not essential.  We don’t teach language in these classes. But the wai kru is essential to doing real Muay Thai. Sometimes we teach the terminology but it’s not important.

Many people who study far east martial arts emphasize some of the more personal development aspects of martial arts like discipline and humbleness. Do you feel these are important to South East Asian martial arts?

To me the respect is part of the training. To develop the art we have to have people to develop the discipline more. It’s important to show respect for others and the art because it’s much more dangerous than something more classical like karate or taekwondo. If the proper respect and discipline is not being shown in a student I will pass on the student or kick them out if they aren’t humble. Disrespect and a lack of humbleness is bad for the sport and art.

What would you like our readers to know about USECA and what they have in store for the future?

I want people to know that USEACA exists to promote the art and we want to make the Northwest a true home for Pradal Serey and Muay Thai. I want to bring people from different parts of the USA to compete. I want the sport to grown beyond the grass roots.

Much thanks to Srab Surrey and all at USEACA and South Sound Martial Arts for the interview and photos. You can contact Srab directly via the USEACA web site or the South Sound Martial Arts site.

Saenchai, the Man of Many Belts

Much thanks goes to Dr.Lynne Miller, all at Sinbi Muay Thai and Saenchai himself for making this interview possible. Saenchai is widely regarded by Muay Thai aficionados as the pound for pound best fighter in the world in Muay Thai. He won the Lumpini Championship title in three different weight divisions. Saenchai would often give up 5 lbs. + in weight to find worthy opponents in Thailand. He’s known for having excellent ring vision and speed.

In Muay Thai  Saenchai won many titles including:

2010 Lumpinee and WMC World Lightweight title

2010 Toyota Cup tournament champion

Current MTAA World Lightweight champion

Lumpinee Stadium Super featherweight (130 lbs / 59 kg) champion

Lumpinee Stadium Bantamweight (118 lbs / 53 kg) champion

Lumpinee Stadium Super flyweight (115 lbs / 52 kg) champion

1999 Sports Writers of Thailand Fighter of the Year

2008 Sports Writers of Thailand Fighter of the Year

Question: How did you get started in Muay Thai and where did you first start training?

Answer: I used to watch Muay Thai and I really liked it when I was a child. I always wanted to do it. I come from Mahasarkham. I started practicing with my father when I was about 7. We did it at our home as there were no gyms nearby. It was before the days of hand pads and my father used to wrap clothes around his hands and arms to protect them.

What is your fight record thus far?

I started fighting when I was eight years old. I have had over three hundred fights. I have only lost 40 times and drawn twice. I won my very first fight at the age of 8. I won 30 thb. I had to give 20 thb to my father and he allowed me to keep 10 thb for myself.

As many already know by now you have now relocated to Sinbi Muay Thai in Phuket. What made you want to move from 13 Coins in Bangkok?

I wanted to change my lifestyle and to have a better life for me and my family. I wanted a more relaxed lifestyle. I wanted to think about my wife and my son who is now 9 years old. I have not fallen out with anyone. I was in Bangkok for 15 years and I knew I could do better for my family. I will still go back to Bangkok for holidays and to train at 13 Coins. I will use 13 Coins when I need to lose weight for a fight, although most of my training will now be at Sinbi.

Will you still be able to fight as many high profile fights in the past in Phuket instead of Bangkok?

Everything will be the same, except that because I will be more relaxed I will be better than before. When I was in Bangkok I was working all the time. I was always being called upon to do things. In Phuket my life is much easier. I will be fighting in Lumpinee, Ratcherdermneon and other countries as well.

Saenchai with some of the crew of Sinbi Muay Thai

Most fans of Muay Thai consider you pound for pound the best in the world and even Sangteinnoi considers you one of the best of the modern era of Muay Thai. How did you come to develop your unique and winning style?

I have always wanted to do things that surprise people and that people would like. I used my imagination and wanted to be the best. I looked at the old style of Muay Thai and brought it together with the modern style.

As one of the best fighters in Thailand what do you think is the most important thing you teach new students?

To be very successful, you have to really love Muay Thai. I tell my students to love Muay Thai and put your whole heart into it and they will be good without doubt.

Who was your toughest opponent in Thailand?

Tongchai Tor Silachai – he has excellent technique.

Recently, it was reported by WBC Muay Thai that you wanted to fight Kevin Ross. Does this match still interest you?

Yes, I am still interested in this match.

Having fought extensively throughout the world which country do you feel has the best Muay Thai outside of Thailand?

It has got to be Europe, definitely Europe especially England, Germany and France.

2 legends together: Saenchai and Orono Por Muang Ubon

You fought many fights above your own weight class and won. What makes you willing to fight bigger fighters than yourself?

I have to fight heavier opponents because people in my own weight class will not fight me.

Who would you like a rematch against and why?

There is no one in Thailand I would like a rematch against. I want to go to other countries to fight now.

What is the biggest difference for you now training at Sinbi Muay Thai than at 13 Coins?

There is not much difference at all between my training at Sinbi and at 13 Coins. The main difference is that outside of training there is not so much pressure in Phuket. I can relax more. Before I just trained and worked. Here I can train and then relax. I can spend more time with my son and enjoy being a father.

There was some speculation that you were going to leave Muay Thai to become a professional foot ball player. Was this ever a true ambition for you?

I haven’t played football for about two years now. Someone offered me money to become a footballer. I tried it but I realized I love Muay Thai too much to give it up.

Saenchai, Buakaw Por Pramuk and some of the Thai cast of Yamada

As a citizen of Thailand and high level boxer in Muay Thai what would you like to see change in order to improve Muay Thai internationally?

Muay Thai is Muay Thai. If you change the rules it is not the same. It has to be everything for me. I fought in China and I lost because you were not allowed to do certain things.

Most dedicated fans of Muay Thai consider the 1990′s era of Muay Thai to be the best time for Muay Thai in terms of quality of fighters and fights. Do you agree with this?

Yes, although there are a lot of good fighters around now, they were many more at that time.

You also have your own children who fight in Muay Thai. As a parent how safe is it for them?

I don’t particularly want my son to fight although I allow him to practice Muay Thai because he enjoys it. He is only a child now and I wont make any rules for him. He can decide what he wants to do when he is old enough to do this.

How do you enjoy Phuket compared to Bangkok?

I enjoy myself wherever I am.

Which fighters do you like now fighting out of Thailand for their skill?

I like fighting Liam Harrison. I like his technique. Whatever I do to him, he copies and does back to me. I enjoy this. It is fun.

What projects or fights can we look forward to from you now that you are in Sinbi Muay Thai?

The thing I am looking forward to most of all is extending my international career and I am particularly looking forward to fighting in England again.

You have many fans in the USA and in the world. What message would you like to tell your fans?

Support me and I will not let you down. I will keep doing things you will be excited about.

Much thanks to all at Sinbi Muay Thai  and to Saenchai for the interview.  You can keep up with Saenchai and his latest activities at the official Sinbi site.

Guillaume Kerner

Guiallaume Kerner is known internationally as the blond angel of Muay Thai. Guillaume was one of the earliest pioneers of Muay Thai in France and achieved high water marks in the sport before becoming a full time trainer in Muay Thai.  Among those accomplishments Guillaume was the French champion 1984-85-86-87-88, The European champion 1988-89, World champion in Bangkok, Thailand in 1994 and the world champion in Los Angeles, California in 1995. Much thanks goes to Guillaume Kerner and Fredric Jeans for making this interview possible.

Q: What brought you to do Muay Thai?

A: Muay Thai is my passion since I was 13 years until today Muay Thai brought me always try to be the best. Never give up in life, always searching the perfect thing to believe in myself.

Muay Thai makes me travel.  I am always discovering different cultures. I’ve met a lot of people from all over the world. I ‘ve learned Thai also English language with Muay Thai.

As one of the earliest pioneers in Muay Thai for France what made you want to train and fight in Thailand?

My teacher was the legend Pod Pad Noi Vorawooth. He talked to me about Thailand and also Thai fighters were superior than westerners.

When I was only 14 years old I decided to go to train in Thailand in Sit Sorn Thong ( Khon Khien) in a real Thai Camp. The conditions were not as they are today. No air conditioning, no comfort and I didn’t speak Thai so the communication was difficult. The food and the culture shock was too big for me. But my passion for Muay Thai helped me to adapt myself.As a 14-year-old you are a kid. Far from home and also family and friends. The culture shock was terrible for a French kid. Everything was so different.

I trained hard so I got a lot of victories in Thailand. Later, when I could speak Thai I really appreciated Thai life. Everything has become easy and today Thailand is my second country.

The Legendary Pud Pad Noi

Muay Thai was much less known internationally in the 80s. How do you think the training is different now compared to then?

Only several foreigners came to train in Thailand in those days. Today, Muay Thai is more of a business. The fighters and fights were harder during the 90′s. Today, many westerners want to train Muay Thai. They want all the comforts: air conditioning and  saunas.

But the level of westerners are better today. In the 90′s only France and Holland produced champions that were able to fight the best Thais.

What was your fighting record in Muay Thai before you retired?

I had 62 fights, 58 wins, 32 wins by knock out, 4 lost  and I had 1 draw vs Wanlop Sithpolek

Let me tell you I have never been knocked out. I was never given an 8 count during a fight or knocked out.

I’ve learned knees technique with the legend Diesel Noy at Ha Pharang camp.

I’ve lost vs Rainbow in Macao because during the fourth round my nose was broken. It was hard to stand the pain until the end of the fight. I’ve been 5 times champion of France, 2 times European champion, 2 times world champion and I won against Coban in 1994 at Los Angeles. In 1995 during the King’s Birthday I won against Chainarong for the world tittle.

How did you come by the nickname “Blonde Angel”?

Because I wore white Thai shorts and I was young with blond hair.

Guillaume Kerner fights Chainarong in 1995 for the world championship

What was it like training under the legendary Pud Pad Noi?

When Pod Pad Noi taught Muay Thai he insisted on perfect technique in everything. He had a great team to train with.

13-year old Guillaume Kerner and Pud Pad Noi

It seems to be widely acknowledged by most Muay Thai fans that the 1990s were the best era in Muay Thai. Do you agree that was the best time of Muay Thai?

I agree. For example, in France we had Dany Bill, Jaid Sedak, Joe Prestia, Stephane Nikiema, Christian Garros, Mourad Sari, Dida Diafat, Moussa Sissoko, Aurelien Duarte, Christophe and Frederic Leveque,  Mourad Djebli, Skarbowsky, Wilfried Montagne, Totof, Kamel Jamel and many other.

Of course we have a great champions today such as Fabio Pinca, Mabel, Meddi Zatout and many others.

If you compare times, we had more champions over the 90′s than now.

During the 90′s the media and TV closely followed competitions.  Today we don’t very often see Muay Thai on TV.

What was it that made the 1990s era better than the present day?

In Thailand they agree. If you ask all Muay Thai experts in Thailand, they will tell you that the 90′s had so many great fighters like Samart Payakaroon, Chamoipet, Diesel Noi, Toto, Hippy, Sakmonkol, Jongsanan , and Boonlai.

One of your most notable fights was with Krongsak who in the past defeated Rob Kaman despite being outweighed by 10kg. What was the most memorable thing about that fight?

Krongsak was the super champion!  He was a terrifying fighter who never lost in Europe. He had great legs with so much power.

My knees techniques were dominating him. Krongsak was growing really tired and he had no solution for my clinch.

He threw a right elbow and I was cut open so the doctor decided to stop the fight.  After this result I was so disappointed because I was dominating the fight.

You also fought Wanpadhet who was a concurrent champion of both Lumpinee and Rajadamnern stadiums at the age of 19. How did you end up fighting such a high level Thai nak muay at such a young age?

Let me talk about my first world title I was only 15 fights for 15 wins I was 20 years old. My opponent Wanpadeth had been Lumpini and Rajadamnern champion.

I lost on points during 5 rounds Yet I touched him with high kick I was young and it was a great experience.

Soon on youtube you will see a video when I was 14 years old I had won a fight versus a Thai who were 25 years old

You trained in many camps in Thailand. What were some of the camps you trained Muay Thai in Thailand?

My first camp was Sit Sorn Thong located at Khon Khien North west of Thailand it was Pod Pad Noi camp.

Later I started training at Ha Phalang, the camp of the legend Diesel Noi who destroyed all his opponents with his knees combinations. Diesel Noi taught me a lot of  his knees combinations.

I trained for my world title fight versus Chainarong for the King’s Birthday in 1995  and my camp was Sor Thanikul.

I also trained at Sityodthong Pattaya and Sor Pleonchit in Bangkok.

Kerner lands a kick on Wandpadeth

What did you learn having trained at so many different camps in Thailand?

As you know, each camp has their own techniques so I ‘ve learned different styles. Now as a coach, I will advise any fighters to go to different camps to learn more. Each trainer has his own unique method to teach.

What do you think the biggest differences are in Thai style training compared to western style training for Muay Thai?

The way Thais count points are different: only knees, kicks, elbows gives more points. The western style is more of a  boxing style; always searching to get the knock out with boxing combinations.

Thais are good at clinch and they also are better at grabbing legs and knees and elbow combinations. Today westerners from all over the world have a better level than 7 years ago.

Some Thais are not good at defense versus a boxer using only boxing so that gives a chance against Thais. But some westerners have  a real Thai style and they can beat any Thai fighters.

What was your proudest achievement you made in Muay Thai?

My proudest moment was when I became the world champion during the King’s Birthday in 1995.

Were there any low points for you in your Muay Thai career?

Missing  the media , the press , and the TV coverage.

I understand you now have your own club for Muay Thai. What made you decide to teach?

I should teach what I’ve learned. I am open to teach Muay Thai seminars all over the world.

Rachid Saadi and Jerome Le Banner with Guillaume Kerner on the far right

What students do you have from Team Kerner that the world should look forward to seeing?

You should see students wanting to learn an authentic Muay Thai style. During a few years of training my student Mounir Bouti had been amateur world champion  and he received the title of best fighter in Bangkok , Thailand.

He knocked out 2 Thais in Radjadamnern stadium in 2006/2007.  Mounir has been champion of France too at 60 kg where there are a lot of people at this weight.

You now also offer international seminars. What things do you focus most on in teaching these seminars?

I want to teach from my experience. After the seminars the student get better techniques. I want to bring my Muay Thai seminars all over the world. Anyone interested can just contact me guillaumekerner@hotmail.com

What do you think is the most important lesson to learn for a new student of Muay Thai?

To me the most important lesson is to be patient. New students need the repetition of techniques to get power. They need  to work  on all techniques.

Do you have any final words for fans and students?

Always give the best of yourself . Muay Thai must be a passion.

You can stay up to date on Guilaume Kerner and Team Kerner at his official web site.

Luis Bio, current WBC Muay Thai Mexico Champion

Luis Bio has been steadily getting recognition in the United States and in Mexico for his fighting prowess in Muay Thai. From a steady stream of fights internationally in China, Mexico and the United States, Luis’ career in the science of 8 limbs is very much in an upward trajectory.  Luis splits time between Mexico and the United States to train at San Diego, California’s Boxing Club with Caine Gayle where he refines his Muay Thai technique. “El Shogun” as Luis is sometimes known has in the past captured the ITBO Mexican National Muay Thai Champion and IKKC Western Middleweight Champion. Recently, Luis also added some more ring fight gold in the form of the WBC Muay Thai national title of Mexico.  Luis Bio ended the fight with a 1 round stoppage of his opponent Alejandro Nunez to become the WBC Muay Thai national champion of Mexico during the WBC’s 48th Convention held in Cancun, Mexico.

Q: How did you get started in Muay Thai and where did you first start training?

A: I first started with kickboxing at Jose Guardado’s gym in Ensenada, Mexico. My older brother got me into it since he had been training for a couple of weeks and every day he would try to convince me to check the gym out, and so he did – but honestly I tried it so he would stop being so annoying!

Mexico is not known for producing many Thaiboxers. How is the state of Muay Thai over there?

There doesn’t seem to be much authentic Muay Thai in Mexico. There are some guys that have travelled to Thailand and trained for a week and now they think they deserved to be called “Kru” but they have never competed seriously. And then there are those that learn through youtube. There is lots of boxing gyms and now MMA gyms so there is a lot of potential. I hope with WBC Muay Thai creating the national committee here in Mexico we can increase the level of training and competition.

I understand you train in the United States also. How did you come by this training arrangement?

Well, one day I ran into Dennis Leung, my actual manager,in Mexico and we started training together for a year or so until he felt I couldn’t learn more from him. So he brought me over to The Boxing Club in San Diego, CA where Melchor Menor was the head Muay Thai instructor. Dennis had trained under Melchor for a couple of years after he left Fairtex in San Fransisco, and so I became part of “Team M”. Two years ago I started training with Caine Gayle who was originally one of Mel’s students and for the past 5 years I’ve been driving 150 miles every weekend to train in the US.

What would you like to see change in Mexico to make the sport of Muay Thai grow over there?

Now with the WBC brand behind Muay Thai, I hope that it can help create a bigger market with sponsored events and fighters. Fighters usually only stay in their region because there is not enough money to fly fighters out and pay their purse, hotel, etc. Fighters end up getting offered the equivalent to US$90-$160 to fight in their hometown. With better money, fighters can actually focus more on training and competing, creating a better show and generating more popularity.

You recently won the Mexico championship for WBC Muay Thai. Has this helped raise your profile in Mexico?

Yes it has, there aren’t many WBC Muay Thai champions in my country and only maybe one or two others fight or have fought internationally. Winning the WBC Muay Thai national championship has definitely put me on the map because it is something fighters want and now they have to fight me to get it.

There seems to be some gradual growth of Muay Thai in the western hemisphere. How do you feel the level of the United States and Mexico is in Muay Thai compared to the rest of the world?

I think there are some really good fighters in the U.S. Unfortunately, because of the high cost of living, Muay Thai fighters are part time fighters with a full time job. That limits the level of training a fighter can have. Muay Thai in areas like Thailand, Japan, Europe, and Australia create more high quality fighters because there is a market for it.

Luis Bio connects with a punch

How has your experience been fighting abroad now in China?

My last few fights have been in China and it has been awesome. It is the birth place of martial arts. The people there enjoy and understand martial arts. The promoters Tony Chen and Dennis Warner really have something going there. We are well taken care of, we get paid, and the events are very, very well produced. The only negative is that they don’t like full Muay Thai rules so it limits your weapons. The refereeing and judging there is also questionable.

How would you compare American audiences to Chinese ones?

The Chinese audience is very passionate and respectful. As I mentioned, the people there have a background and history of martial arts where as in America that is not always the case. I remember at an event in the US where my team mate, Artem Sharoskin, fought and people were yelling racial slurs at him, that was sad. On the positive side, Americans tell you how they feel so they won’t be shy to give you positive feedback also.

Do you prefer Wu Lin Feng rules or Muay Thai rules?

Muay Thai, definitely.

What so far has been your toughest fight?

I fought Ryuji Goto from Japan when I first turned pro.

Luis Bio meets Goto in the ring

Is there any opponents you would like most to rematch with?

Yes, I would like to rematch Xu Yan with Muay Thai rules. He broke my nose in the first round in China and I ended up losing by split decision.

Have you trained in Thailand yet? And if not would you like to?

I was at Sityodtong in Pattaya a couple of years ago and trained with Nuengpichit,a 2x Lumpinee Champ, he is awesome! Training in Thailand is only good if you know someone or are someone, otherwise – it’s a basic 1-2 kick combination all day long.

Growing in the sport who were some of your earliest heroes in Muay Thai?

Yoddecha Sityodtong, Ramon Dekkers, Samart Payakaroon.

Whats your favorite technique to use in Muay Thai?

I like the long knee.

Now that you’ve won the WBC national championship in Mexico what other goals would you like to achieve in Muay Thai?

The goal now is to get a shot at an International WBC Muay Thai title. And I would also like to fight for the WBC Muay Thai Mexican National title at 154 lbs.

You are quite tall for a middleweight fighter. Would you eventually gain weight and go into a larger weight class?

Actually I feel much better fighting at 154 lbs., so I think I’ll move down a weight class next year. My pro debut was at 168 lbs. and I felt very slow and weak, going up would not be a possibility for now.

Luis Bio Wins at Wu Lin Feng

Who far has been your toughest opponent and why?

Ryuji Goto. We fought on the Titans 3^rd event in Japan and John Wayne Parr (JWP) was also on that card. I remember when JWP found out I was fighting Goto, he said was “Ooh, he’s a very tough guy! Don’t expect him to go down!!” and he was right. Goto would just keep coming at me! If I only knew then what I know now I would have been able to deal with him.

Leading up to a fight how does your diet and exercise regimen change?

It changes drastically, my strength and conditioning coach in Mexico writes down a nutrition plan every time I have a fight coming up, and I go from eating two or three big meals a day (since my daily schedule is very busy), to 6 balanced meals + supplements. And no more tacos…that’s what I hate the most!

What other activities do you enjoy outside of Muay Thai?

Sleeping!! I’m an Industrial Engineer and Business Analyst that works 10-11 hours a day at a manufacturing plant (Navico) in Mexico, and if you add 2-3 hours of training every day you’ll find that by the time I get home I’m completely drained. Any time I have a chance to take a nap or simply rest I go for it!

Do you have any messages for new and old fans?

I would like to thank all the people that have supported me and this sport, my coaches, promoters Dennis Warner and Tony Chen and my manager Dennis Leung.And to all the latino fans, muchas gracias por su apoyo! Saludos!

Much thanks to Luis Bio and Dennis Leung for helping to make this interview possible.

Liam Harrison celebrates in the ring

Liam Harrison is a strong United Kingdom nak muay standout.  Harrison has been named in Thailand’s Muay Siam magazine as the foreign fighter of the year. Among the titles Harrison has captured are the WAKO-pro World Kickboxing Champion 62kg,WPMF World Muaythai Champion, and the WMC World Muaythai Champion -61.5kg.

Harrison recently has been competing in Thai Fight: the tournament broadcast on Thailand’s Channel 3 TV, along with a filmed reality TV show to coincide with the tournament.  In Thai Fight Liam fought and won in the thus far 2 rounds of the tournament.

Q:What made you choose Muay Thai as a sport?

A: I used to play a lot of football and started Muay Thai just for some extra fitness. As I got a bit better I had my 1st fight which I won by KO. After that there was no turning back.

What sports did you prior to Muay Thai?

Only football. I played at quite a high level until I was about 18 years old.

The United Kingdom is becoming increasingly known internationally for producing high quality Thaiboxers. Why do you think that is?

We have some top gyms and coaches here in the UK. Also a lot of the gyms regularly bring Thai coaches over from Thailand to stay in their gym for long stints. I think this helps increase the sport here a lot.

Who were your earlier influences for martial arts?

To be honest, I was never into martial arts until I started Muay Thai. I still don’t really like any other sports apart from Muay Thai, football and (international) boxing.

You’re known for fighting some top tier Thaiboxers in Saenchai Sor Kingstar among others. What sort of adjustments do you make for fighting such high caliber Thai fighters?

I just train the way I always do: give 100 percent in the ring and in the gym. I’m always working with top coaches so whatever game plan they give me for these fights I trust them.

The Hit Man hits his opponent

You recently competed in Thai Fight where you made it into the second round to defeat, by KO Soishiro Miyakoshi. Yet after the fact they disqualified you from the win because they said you failed to make weight. Can you explain the circumstances of the weight disqualification to your knowledge?

I was ill before the fight for about 4 days with a stomach virus but it wasn’t too bad. The day before and the day of the weigh in it kicked in very bad and my stomach was hurting so much I literally couldn’t move and if I did I began throwing up. My walk around weight is 69kg which when I fight usually I cut down to 62-63.5 over a 2-3 week period. So to get to 67kg it was no problem. For the 1st round of the tournament I just ran for an hour on the day of the weigh in with a sweat suit on and ended up weighing 66kg which was too light, especially since I was the smallest fighter there.

But with being ill this time on the day of the weigh in I literally couldn’t do anything. I ended up being about 68kg just through vomiting and it was so bad I was going to withdraw myself from the fight. I was in a right state, but was talked back into it by the production as they wanted the TV show to look good and was told I would still be paid for this round of the tournament. I turned up the day of the fight having not eaten anything that day and was still very ill. I ended up winning by KO but only received half my money not the full purse as I was promised. I thought this was unfair seeing as everyone knew my usual fight weight was a lot lower and in the 1st round I was only 66kg. Fair enough to be disqualified but I still fought whilst sick and still put on a good fight on TV.

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to disqualify you for not making the weight before instead of after the fight?

I was fully aware I couldn’t advance on in the tournament that’s why I didn’t want to fight. I was very sick and didn’t want to be made to look stupid or jeopardize my health. I only fought because I thought I was receiving the full wage.

Having been a part of such a high profile event in Thailand representing the UK is there any other big Thai event you’d like to be a part of in the future?

Just any high profile and high paying events.

Your gym, Bad Company has become renown for consistently producing very good quality fighters. What do you think separates Bad Company from so many other good Muay Thai gyms in the UK?

Richard Smith. In my eyes he’s without a doubt the best coach in the UK and probably Europe. He always is producing top tier fighters and has been for years

As a well traveled fighter who has fought extensively internationally, who outside of Thailand seems to have the strongest Muay Thai?

The French fighters are very good. All the top fighters there have a nice Thai style. Also the Dutch for K-1.

Having fought and trained in Muay Thai in Thailand what is different about the Thai method of training and fighting?

It is just more intense and a lot harder. In the UK because people work for a living they can only fit the gym in at certain times and only for a few hours a week. In Thailand its 5 hours a day and working with all the top seasoned veteran cocahes and trainers who are there…you’re only going to improve.

Where would you like most to visit and fight next in the world?

I would like to fight in America. I’ve had a few offers so far but nothing that has taken my fancy. I really hope next year brings something new though.

Do you train in Muay Thai fulltime or do you have a day job as well?

I work in the gym teaching as well as training and fighting full time.

Liam Harrison delivers a hard kick

What other interests do you have outside of Muay Thai?

Football (I’m a massive Leeds United fan) and boxing. I also try go to the cinema as much as possible too.

If you weren’t a professional Muay Thai fighter what else could you see yourself doing?

I can’t see myself doing anything else

What opponents would you most like a rematch with and why?

Saenchai, as I feel if I had stuck to my game plan in that fight I could have done so much better.

What upcoming fights or plans do you have ahead for 2011?

So far there’s quite a few in the pipeline. The 1st one is in Scotland on Brian Calder’s promotion versus Phetsawin Zezenferry in a rematch from earlier this year.

Do you have any final words for your fans?

Just thanks for the support and I hope I can keep giving entertaining fights for everyone to watch.

Much thanks goes to Liam Harrison for taking the time to answer my questions.  Liam has with out a doubt fought some of the most entertaining and competitive Muay Thai bouts internationally and I look forward to what will come in the future with Liam.

Mike Winkeljohn

Michael Winkeljohn was born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico and graduated from the University of New Mexico with a business degree. Winkeljohn began kickboxing in 1980 and his twenty plus year career in the sport has cemented him as both a legendary fighter and unparalleled coach.

Winkeljohn’s fighting style earned him a reputation of extreme toughness and conditioning that led him to three world titles, including an ISKA championship in 1992 and two Muay Thai championships in 1993. He retired with a kickboxing record of 25-7-3 and a boxing record of 2-0, which includes a notable win over legendary Muay Thai World Champion, Coban Lookchaoemaesaithong. I caught up with Mike Winkeljohn at the famous Jackson and Winkeljohn’s gym in Albuquerque, NM. I have to extend much thanks to Mike Winkeljohn for generously extending his time while busy training the many fighters that populate Jackson and Winkeljohn’s gym.

Q: The first and most obvious question is how did you start in kickboxing and combat sports?

A: I honestly started off with sort of the wrong motives. I wanted to fight better in any encounter I may have with someone. I started off at Bill Packer’s and I learned both classical martial arts (Kempo) and kickboxing at the same time beginning at the age of 18. There I had the opportunity to train with John Moncayo who was  a middleweight world champion and Mike King, a heavyweight champion.

The classical martial arts training taught me a lot about kinesiology and movement in general. Especially in regards to movement and transitions in the fights which I still feel make all the difference in fighting.  I had a relatively short amateur career with only 4 fights before switching to professional.

What were some of your goals early on in your fighting career?

At first I just wanted to fight and prove myself to the world. As time went on I went on to eventually attain world titles and challenge the legends in the sport.  I grew to love it for the challenge and the sport.

As a coach how do you tailor  your training to suit the kind of athlete whether it is a kickboxer, international boxer or MMA fighter?

Nowadays, basically all combat athletes have great conditioning: everyone can punch or kick hard. I try  to build around my students specifically  to leverage their advantages. I focus on what they individually need to win fights. I focus on smart mitwork and the use of angles.  I work hard on my fighters between fights to build up their arsenal of tools they can use in future fights.

What is the most important things you can teach beginners?

The most important things I teach are the basics that work in fights. For standup striking I work on basic kicks, punches and transitions.  For MMA I would suggest solidifying 3 basic submissions. Meat and potatoes are most useful at this stage.

Mike Winkeljohn Confers with a fighter

What has been your proudest accomplishment as a fighter?

In Muay Thai I was very happy to have won against Coban Lookchaoemaesaithong.  I also drew with Marek Piotrowski after 8 rounds for the ISKA world title. [Marek had famously defeated Rick Roufus].

For those who don’t know what are some of the curriculum requirements of Jackson and Winkeljohn’s gym before becoming a fighter in MMA?

We require fighters in MMA to have finished or placed well in a grappling tournament. We also require fighting in boxing and kickboxing. Obviously, to ensure they are well rounded and tested at a reasonable level before becoming a professional fighter. There is no set number to meet this requirement and Greg (Jackson) and I assess the fighter’s progress on a very individual level.

Do you train amateur fighters different from professional fighters?

I don’t train amateurs much different from our pro fighters. I train both to fight and at their best level. With all my fighters I assess them individually and don’t try to apply one set method for everyone.

Muay Thai seems to be growing at a grassroots level in the USA.  What needs to change in the United States to accelerate that growth and sustain it?

Muay Thai needs to be seen more and have an actual nationally broadcast product. Muay Thai needs more exposure and the press need to treat it as more of a bonafide sport. Pay per view buys and audience support got MMA where it is now and the same should happen with Muay Thai.

Who were some of your early influences when you began fighting?

I liked Benny “The Jet” Uriquidez.  I admired his toughness and creativity in fights. At times in my early fights I wasn’t always creative. The fights I lost were because I didn’t have the tools or the right game plan. As I said before these days most everyone has the conditioning and the power.  The creativity and tactical smarts is less common.

Who was your toughest opponent?

Marek Piotrowski, for his toughness and strength.

Does it make much of a difference in your students if they already come from an established athletic background such as American rules football?

I see a very noticeable difference in training fighters with an already established athletic background. Mostly in their work ethic, their discipline and their physical conditioning.  Most of these kinds of fighters are used to doing their “homework” so working hard is not new to them.

Mike Winkeljohn does mitwork

In some circles there seems to be some schism between MMA and Muay thai fans.  Is there a reason why?

I really don’t see it. I see most of the MMA crowd giving respect to Muay Thai. To me, if you are ignoring one sport you are missing out on the other too. A good boxing fighter can see the skill in Muay Thai and vice versa. I think Muay Thai fans may need to understand how difficult it is training in the 8 limbs with the addition of the MMA range: the ground and shoot distance.

You have become well known for your tactical plans that get wins for your fighters.  Is there a general approach or is it customized for each fighter?

No, I always customize strategy and game plans around my fighter’s strengths. If I have a general approach it is: to hit and not get hit.

As a coach you have champions in boxing, MMA, and Muay Thai and kickboxing.  How do you specifically train fighters of each style?

With every fighter in their respective style I train specifically on their strengths. I mold the tactics on their body type and their disposition as a fighter I must also say I am blessed to be coaching talented fighters and their success brings success to others too.

There have been recent concerns that have come to the surface regarding the recent IKF amateur event in which Adrienne Simmons died.  Do you have an opinion on some of the concerns that have been raised about how the event was regulated?

To be fair I don’t know all the details of the event or the incident. For my own events I have always had paramedics and medical on staff with an ambulance. And I do feel strongly that the 2nds in the corner are always the primary party responsible for their fighter’s safety. This sort of thing happens in boxing as well and this is a concern that touches all fight sports.

What are your current goals as a coach?

Right now I am focusing on Holly Holm. Holly will be transitioning from international boxing to MMA. And I want to see Holly become an MMA world champion as well.

And of course I want to help my fighters get more UFC gold.

Mike Winkeljohn puts his fighters through their paces

Is there any fighters you are working with now that we should know more about?

Look for Travis Marks at 135 lbs. coming soon to the World Extreme Cagefighting promotion. I also have in Muay Thai Terris James and Mike Justus who need matchups but matchmaking for Thaiboxing can be difficult.

What do you think you bring to training that other coaches may not?

I think I bring genuine enthusiasm and passion and I will put in the time fighters need. Coaching fighters and operating the gym is not my only stream of income.  I love fight sports. I think also unlike some coaches I look to fighters’ futures outside after the fight career. I try to advise them to look after themselves once their fight careers are over.

As Muay Thai grows in the United States what are some of the difficulties with regulation?

The main issue is a lack of education on the sport. Here in New Mexico they want to assess Commission fees yet they don’t have the education among their staff and officials to properly do safe regulation.  They’ve approached myself and others for training their staff and yet coaches and gyms have to pay for their commissioning fees. I feel in general its over regulation and with the fees being assessed, its killing the sport.

Any last words for fans and readers of this site?

Thanks much to everyone for their support.  And thank you for the recognition.

To contact Mike Winkeljohn for coaching inquiries please visit http://www.jacksons.tv/